Salihu Lukman was the previous Nationwide Vice Chairman (North-West) of the All Progressives Congress (APC). He resigned from his exalted workplace from the APC Nationwide Working Committee on the eve of the emergence of former Kano State Governor, Abdullahi Umar Ganduje, as APC Nationwide Chairman. The previous Director Basic of the discussion board of APC Governors, the Progressive Governors Discussion board (PGF) speaks with choose journalists in Abuja, together with TAIWO AMODU.
PEOPLE see you as being too crucial of others in management positions. From APC former nationwide chairmen and serving [senators] to the president, you retain discovering fault with them. Do you see that as truly being progressive as a member of the APC?
I believe it’s fairly unfair to say I don’t say something good. And I take you again, I preserve making the purpose of how shut I’m with Comrade Adams Oshiomhole. When he was going to declare for the nationwide chairmanship, I used to be a type of who wrote his declaration speech. If I didn’t see something good in him, I wouldn’t have supported him within the first place. And seeing good in an individual, if I just like the particular person, it doesn’t imply I ought to preserve quiet when the particular person is doing the unsuitable factor. I believe the problem we’ve and that is the true challenge: for many individuals, whenever you attempt to help them by providing recommendation, it’s fairly tough after they change into leaders. Understandably so as a result of they’re surrounded by calls for so they’re unable to tell apart those that genuinely need to help them to succeed and people reward singers who simply need to extract some advantages out of them. And within the course of, folks like us, I imply change into shortchanged if I can put it that means.
For me, if I uncover that I’m not capable of assess my leaders and they’re going unsuitable, don’t overlook that it’s the society that’s on the receiving finish of their incapacity to do the precise factor; I’ll come out and say it. That’s the reason my background is activism. I didn’t simply go into activism as a result of it’s trendy; I went in with my eyes very open. I’m hungry for information; I learn so much. So that’s about Adams.
After Adams management was eliminated, Mai Mala Buni got here and all of you have been witnesses to that. There was a time I used to be aiding in drafting a number of the statements from the caretaker committee. However after they determined that they wished to start out manipulating whether or not to have a conference or to not have a conference, they phased us out.
Within the case of Tinubu, God is aware of I used to be shocked when Ganduje’s title, whom I respect, got here up after the elimination of Abdullahi Adamu. I’ve stated it a number of instances that I didn’t consider he (Tinubu) made the precise resolution. In case you take a look at our structure, the primary desire is that the state that produced the member of the NWC has the good thing about nominating the substitute. So primarily based on that, I believed Nasarawa State ought to have been on condition that honour and we’re fortunate to have someone like Tanko Al- Makura who’s initially a founding member of the social gathering. By our studying of the state of affairs, he was virtually sanctioned due to his closeness to Tinubu. One of many causes he was not thought of for the nationwide chairman place was his closeness to the president.
I believed then that as Tinubu grew to become the president, he ought to have been chosen seamlessly. That is the purpose as of at the moment, like within the assertion I issued every week in the past, it’s so painful and aggravating that the entire North-Central within the politics of the nation is marginalised below Tinubu’s management. If we preserve quiet, we aren’t serving to him. I need him to reach each respect. I desire a state of affairs the place lengthy after his tenure, he will probably be remembered as the most effective presidents Nigeria produced. We aren’t going to help him by simply patting him on the again when he does the unsuitable issues. I’m hoping that certainly one of lately, he’ll right a few of these issues.
To the most effective of my information, I’m not all the time towards leaders and if I’m towards leaders, why am I within the social gathering? I’m nonetheless within the social gathering. Go and ask loads of our leaders from the time of Buhari so far, none of them has seen my CV. I’ve not gone out on the lookout for an appointment or something. All of the appointments from Progressive Governors Discussion board, to even the social gathering, I used to be invited; I didn’t current myself. This is the reason it’s all the time painful when a few of us request to see the president, however it’s being thought of as lobbying. I’m not going to see the president to foyer for an appointment. Not that I don’t prefer it, however that’s not my precedence.
The place the place this nation is now wants loads of selflessness. We’re a era that acquired virtually the most effective out of this nation. Our youngsters are on the receiving finish of poor management. So I received’t mislead you, generally, I’m fired by a excessive stage of anger about what we’ve at the moment. So, I received’t lie. If anyone is deceiving himself that what we’ve is okay as a result of we’re comparatively snug, the particular person is deceiving himself.
What do you assume Tinubu can do to fulfill the expectations of Nigerians?
Look, first my perception prior to now was that instantly Tinubu got here in, there could be a outstanding distinction between the best way authorities and social gathering have been run below Buhari and the best way [they] will probably be run below him. I anticipated that the organs of the social gathering could be lively and thru conferences of the organs of the social gathering, the president would profit from loads of recommendation the organs and leaders of the social gathering would be capable to provide him [as well as] have entry to him structurally which was what we lacked below Buhari. And there will probably be loads of nationwide debates about what must be completed to right all the issues the nation is dealing with, whether or not regarding the entire debate about restructuring and even in regards to the administration of the financial system and the best way to open up alternatives for residents.
I anticipate that there needs to be loads of pleasure as a result of that’s what democracy is anticipated to provide primarily based on which residents may have that sense of satisfaction, a way of belonging that we’re a part of this nation referred to as Nigeria. And once we say issues, though we don’t meet the president, there are channels by means of which I can see my view whether or not the best way I categorical it or the best way someone expresses it’s being mirrored within the resolution they make.
Nigeria President took up with a bang. There was loads of pleasure; his approval ranking was excessive a minimum of within the first two weeks after his inauguration. Now, I believed that would have been sustained however one way or the other every thing declined. And I’ve raised it earlier than, first was his resolution in regards to the withdrawal of the subsidy. I anticipated instantly it could be adopted with some collection of actions that point out the place the nation goes to resolve the entire problem of home manufacturing of petroleum merchandise as a result of that’s the place the issue is. Now, all we see is that okay, cash that ought to have been paid for subsidy has been saved which is why for those who keep in mind it was Lamido Sanusi who was asking the query the place is the greenback? And that’s the query many individuals are asking. The folks will legitimately ask these questions as a result of one way or the other a call has been taken however there was no follow-up motion to make sure that the issue that created the subsidy regime has been resolved. It’s the similar factor with the trade charge challenge.
As an alternative of permitting even public debate and letting the federal government profit from even a number of the recommendations that will probably be coming from the general public, what seems is that we need to simply cage folks which is why, as an illustration, I see from the preliminary steps taken by a number of the leaders of presidency to now say authorities inherited a bankrupt financial system… a comatose nation! Bla! Bla! It’s a failure to not take duty. Whether or not it’s a bankrupt financial system, we’re a part of it.
In case you recall, some folks say if Buhari had tousled the financial system, who introduced him to energy? It’s all of us within the social gathering. So we should take these obligations.
Now, I believe and that is the place my confidence is: all hope shouldn’t be misplaced. I consider Nigeria President can recuperate himself and he’ll recuperate himself, I’ve that confidence, and start to deal with all these points. Regarding getting the buildings of the social gathering to perform, I believe the president must problem everyone, reasonably than everyone simply ready for him to decide. Everyone ought to sit up.
We eliminated Adamu and introduced Ganduje. However he’s simply sitting, and virtually behaving like Adamu. I’m sorry, with due respect to him, no assembly is going down, besides generally, ceremonial. You see folks paying courtesy visits, but it surely doesn’t quantity to assembly all of the obligations the structure has imposed on him because the nationwide chairman of the social gathering. I believe these are the problems.
Additionally for those who stretch it, the entire problem dealing with the nation, I say regarding Ondo, Rivers, and numerous these challenges, folks calling on Tinubu to intervene ought to know that it’s not for the president to intervene, however for him to problem everyone to do the precise factor. If at the moment our judiciary and our authorized system have been working, our regulation enforcement companies working the best way that they implement the regulation as supplied in each the structure and all legal guidelines of the nation, a number of the rascality occurring wouldn’t happen. However when folks consider they’ve the safety of someone, which is why folks will say the president ought to intervene, it’s only for him to problem each the regulation enforcement companies and the judiciary to do the needful and decline to provide cowl to anyone who violates the regulation.. If we wish this democracy to fulfill the expectations of the residents, this has to occur.
Why did you throw away your NWC seat when it could have been higher to stay within the system and preserve pushing for the precise issues to be completed? Are you not afraid of expulsion whenever you proceed along with your criticisms?
Properly, first, on the query of why I threw away my seat, there are loads of dynamics occurring. What seems within the public shouldn’t be as protected as what folks will think about. It was very clear to me there have been forces throughout the social gathering that weren’t pleased with my position of eliminating Adamu, and all of the advocacy I had completed and I may see the non-public hazard, which was not only a risk to my life however a risk to my political profession, and I’m not somebody who enjoys good relationship with many social gathering leaders. And sincerely talking, they offer me loads of safety, little doubt about, it however in regards to the PGF, there have been clear divisions.
My position was creating divisions amongst governors, and it was safer for me, and the governors to resign, which was what I did. Now, I may see that it’s not a query of division, however that there are individuals who have been decided to do away with me out of the social gathering’s management and I couldn’t simply take the chance as a result of if I enable them and so they succeed, I’m broken. And something I stated thereafter, folks would say is as a result of I’m offended that I’ve been thrown out. Primarily based on that, I selected to save lots of myself, which is why I took loads of time, mainly going throughout rebuilding my political profession. And I stated very first thing, let me even doc the experiences within the battle to do away with the caretaker committee, to the battle to have Tinubu emerge as presidential candidate and which is what I did. After I did that, I stated okay let me use it to see if I can negotiate with leaders and people of them who really feel offended. Many felt offended that I resigned within the first place. So let me use it to barter in order that those that are offended will perceive it’s not as if I wished to spite them, which is what I did. I believe that’s the challenge.
Your second query about worry of being expelled from the social gathering, look, let me inform you my private tales. I began dealing with disciplinary committees from my ‘A’ stage. At each stage, I confronted a disciplinary committee, I went there with an open thoughts. I can win, I might be thrown out. However the good factor is that I wasn’t doing something selfishly, and God sees my coronary heart. Generally safety comes from surprising quarters.
So, take a look at an important factor in life (and that is my message to everyone), simply have the most effective of intentions. Don’t got down to be imply or dangerous to anyone. I believe that’s my safety. I didn’t set out within the case of Oshiomhole, Buni, Adamu, I didn’t got down to say they need to depart the management of the social gathering. No. I supposed to attract consideration to the place the issue lies. Once they didn’t take heed to me, we continued the advocacy.
For me, the primary downside in life is worry. When you conquer worry and, in any case, if I’m expelled from the social gathering at the moment, what do I lose? I’ve stated so after I was in PGF. There have been governors, I advised them I’ve this pondering that I’m first a citizen of Nigeria earlier than being a celebration member, earlier than being at the moment DG PGF. You may sack me as DG, and I’ll stay a celebration member. In case you so want you possibly can expel me as a celebration member, I’m nonetheless a citizen of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. In all of this stuff, you possibly can expel me over something for those who like, however you possibly can’t expel me from being a citizen of the nation. And in Nigeria, no one can hint, as much as the final 5 or 6 generations, the lineage the place I come from and say one of many generations is from exterior Nigeria. So, I believe we should always get it proper. When you conquer worry, you don’t have any issues.
What’s your relationship with Adamu, former nationwide chairman? Have you ever met him since he stepped down as chairman?
With the previous nationwide chairman? No, we’ve not met; we’ve not even spoken.
All of them from Oshiomhole, Buni…?
No! No! You see even on Sunday, I’m assembly Comrade Adams Oshiomhole. Like I stated, Adams is sort of a mentor to me. I labored with him for 16 years, from textile union to NLC and we’re very shut. However like I stated, my relationship with Comrade Oshiomhole shouldn’t be the same old relationship of patting folks on the again. He is aware of it. Generally when he needs crucial opinion, he calls me even once we have been in textile union. When everyone is applauding him, he is aware of that if he’s unsuitable, I’ll inform him. And Mai Mala, even this afternoon, despatched me a message to acknowledge receipt of an invite to say he’s in Ummrah. Look, I ensure in all of the disagreements I’ve with leaders, I don’t personalise them.
So, how has life been because you left the social gathering’s NWC?
Let me be trustworthy with you; to start with, it was fairly difficult, as a result of it was not one thing I ready for. It got here virtually like nostril bleeding. And I inform those that are near me that after I despatched the resignation letter, I even went to test my financial institution balances and, in fact, I’m as poor as a church [mouse]; I don’t preserve cash; I don’t save. I don’t consider in saving. The one means I save is to take a position and fortunately, I’ve a farm and I’ve a poultry. It’s simply this January it should begin producing eggs. So I simply needed to discover a means to make sure that a minimum of when it comes to my survival, I may handle myself with out going round begging folks. I attempted to try this. I don’t have a lot. I’ll say I deliberate my life very properly; so I received’t sit down right here and lie. However after I settled down, I tackled a number of the main challenges. I’m fairly relaxed now, very, very relaxed, which is why I may inside a brief interval put collectively all of the supplies for the guide and publish it.
Relating to your critique of the social gathering in latest instances, there have been insinuations that the previous Kaduna State governor, Mallam Nasir El Rufai, is the one allegedly sponsoring you. What’s your take?
I believe it’s fairly unfair. Some know me however stay in denial. If something, I used to be among the many first to problem Mallam when he went to Kaduna to say he was going to run for governor. I don’t need to go into the small print about why I challenged him. I didn’t problem him as a result of I used to be formidable. I challenged him as a result of I disagreed with him. I disagreed with the best way he was organising his politics and we’ve a superb relationship for which I give him credit score; he can handle all our disagreements. He didn’t translate them into private hatred or no matter.
Many individuals know loads of this stuff, however they’ve chosen to disclaim them. They selected to only shut their eyes and say … some stated my closeness to Dr [Kayode] Fayemi and apparently each Mallam and Dr Fayemi, I’ll say, are nearer to my spouse as a result of she labored with them. My spouse labored with Fayemi in CDD, she labored with Mallam in FCT. However regardless of all that, it didn’t cease me. The way in which folks learn what I write, that’s the means they learn. I by no means go to anyone. In actual fact, a few of my shut pals quarrel with me; they inform me: share these issues with us earlier than you launch. I stated if I share with you, are you going to censor me? Is it my opinion or your opinion?
So, look, I don’t conceal the truth that… the fact is that I’m near Mallam, however since I left management and Mallam was the one who nominated me for the management, folks would anticipate that I might seek the advice of him earlier than deciding to resign. I didn’t seek the advice of him and since I resigned, until at the moment, we’ve not spoken. After all, I share with him a number of the issues I write. Even the invitation to the guide launch, I solely despatched it to him. Until at the moment, we’ve not spoken. So, I believe it’s unfair to Mallam to say he’s the one sponsoring me and I don’t know what sponsoring me means.
There are allegations that you’re doing this to draw consideration in order that they will name you for negotiation.
Look, I don’t know what negotiation means, which is why, in latest instances, I’ve been challenged to inform my background story. I’m privileged to return from a household that has produced ministers way back to the Nineteen Eighties and my uncle was a minister after I was NANS president. To be truthful to that man, might God relaxation his soul, he did every thing to tug me out of activism, together with a direct provide that I ought to simply focus on my research. There are folks nonetheless alive who can testify to that. ‘Simply focus in your research; job and every thing in life we promise you’. However as a result of it’s one thing I consider in, I thanked him and I advised my mom, apparently my stepmother; might God relaxation her soul, who introduced me up, as a result of in a typical Fulani custom being the primary baby, haven’t any relationship with my mom. That very same one who introduced me can also be the identical one who introduced Rilwanu up. As I advised them, look they need to simply pray for me. My household will solely see me with my training and my job. In case you go to my household home and ask them how I funded my college training, they don’t know. How I acquired my job, they don’t know.
So, this stuff about going to barter, if I used to be going to barter, I might have completed so means again and even my profession and life trajectory would have been completely different. I want my spouse was right here, she is going to inform you one of many issues that I tortured her with was the potential for a shorter lifespan. My father died on the age of 59; at the moment, I’m 60. For me at this stage, I’m able to die any second. So, I can’t negotiate. That’s the reason I plan my life in such a means. Look, at the moment, I’m so glad as my final baby simply handed out of NYSC; so I don’t have college charges to pay. For me, many individuals mismanaged their lives and sadly, they choose you primarily based on who they’re. I’ve, from the challenges I confronted rising up, determined to organise my life in such a means that I might not depart a number of the liabilities, as an illustration, my father left behind. I’m praying to Allah to help me to realize that and I believe I’ve achieved that.
Away from politics, the army drone killed some villagers just lately. You’re from Kaduna, possibly you need to react to it.
Sincerely, it’s actually unlucky that occurred, however I’m so pleased with the extent of solidarity that I’ve seen. Not like previously, I’ve not seen politics taken over, however I see that everyone is displaying concern and individuals are not blaming even the group. Simply yesterday, I noticed them having a gathering with Governor Uba Sani. After I assume someone wished to capitalise on that and went to courtroom demanding some billions of Naira, the group got here out to disown the particular person. I believe these are very optimistic issues that should be constructed on. It’s fairly unlucky. I do hope that this may open our eyes to sit down down, particularly within the safety sector, to now start to do the precise factor. A part of the problem we’ve is that the issue of banditry nonetheless exists; the issue of kidnapping nonetheless exists, and insecurity remains to be very excessive. As long as we live with this variety of risks, vulnerability will stay excessive. I consider what has occurred is what I’ll name respectable error.
You talked in regards to the worry of revolt; is it throughout the social gathering or amongst Nigerians?
It’s amongst Nigerians, as a result of, look, we’re all Nigerians and whenever you go to the market, you recognize what you might be dealing with. The price of residing has dramatically shot up within the final six months and there’s no indication it will begin coming down. Right now, the fundamental downside with many individuals is meals to eat in our houses. If that’s not addressed, sooner or later, you’ll be strolling on the road and in the event that they see you wanting neat, you’ll change into the enemy; you’ll be attacked. That’s the problem. So when I’m speaking about revolt, I’m not speaking of social gathering members who need privileges of appointments in authorities or contesting elections. No. I’m speaking of residents who’re having problem surviving, as a result of they can’t feed.
Allow us to discuss in regards to the disaster in Rivers State. The state meeting was pulled down final week. What did you see as a means out?
I believe we should always take duty in some methods as a result of, maybe, if as leaders of the social gathering, we didn’t indulge Wike the best way we did, he would have managed his relationship again in Rivers with the governor and different political leaders higher. I believe, truthfully as a result of I don’t need to play low-cost politics, we should enchantment to Wike, if for no matter purpose he made the selection he made to help Siminalayi Fubara to emerge because the governor, he should take duty and stay with the implications and discover a solution to swallow the bitter tablets. It’s because we aren’t speaking about governance. The extra he mismanaged his relationship with Fubara, those that are going to be receiving the brief finish of the stick are the folks of Rivers State. This isn’t going to occur on the expense of governance. You may see primarily based on the road combat, you possibly can see an “arrangee” has been made: Fubara introduced the budgt; in lower than 24 hours it was handed. This isn’t a democracy anymore.
Management is about taking full duty, generally denying your self; it’s like, as a father, it’s not day by day I sit down right here and watch issues occur and I say I’m pleased. Generally, I’ve to only swallow issues, in order that different folks within the household can stay pleased even when I’m not pleased myself. That’s what I anticipate from Fubara and Wike and even from our social gathering in order that the folks of Rivers State will probably be pleased. If that is occurring firstly of tenure, it will outline governance. I see a commentator drawing what is going on in Rivers State and what occurred in Edo in the course of the first tenure of Obaseki. Look, if this democracy is to maneuver this nation ahead, we want leaders who will make the wanted sacrifices in order that residents might be pleased and never by going to the road preventing merely since you disagree with yourselves.
What do you imply whenever you stated APC has over-indulged Wike?
Properly, you might be witnesses. I’m certain when the group of the so-called caretaker committee got here to pay the courtesy go to to the nationwide chairman and shortly after that, the nationwide vice chairman (South-South) led APC leaders from that state to go and go to Wike and after that, with none native downside in Rivers State, the NWC sat down and dissolved all buildings of APC to open the door for Wike to return into the social gathering. So, I imply, you simply give him licence to say you might be welcome; no matter you do, we settle for it. That’s what I imply by indulgence and I don’t assume we should always scale back politics additional.
Individuals have concluded that the drama in Rivers is all in regards to the 2027 energy recreation, contemplating the voting power of the state. What’s your take?
Sadly, for us, that’s the place we’re. We lowered the entire politics to the difficulty of electoral contest. Lower than six months popping out of a basic election, we’re already commencing the competition for the following basic election which is able to come up within the subsequent 4 years. The query of what elected representatives ought to do to ship on the guarantees made has already been sacrificed. Residents are simply ready; they’re on the receiving finish. We promised renewed hope, however we’re doing nothing to resume the hope and everyone is quiet. So, for me, for those who accuse me of attacking leaders as a result of I stated a few of these issues, I settle for it. I take duty and if leaders are offended with me to the purpose that they need to expel me from the social gathering, I additionally settle for it. It simply means they aren’t able to behave like actually progressive politicians which we bought to Nigerians.
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