Mr Sule Kwasau is the national chairman of the Association of Middle Belt Ethnic Nationalities (ASOMBEN). The former chairman of the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA), Jos branch, in this interview by ISAAC SHOBAYO, speaks on the advocacy for the return of Nigeria to the parliamentary system of government, state police, local government autonomy, among other issues.
What is your opinion on the suggestion that Nigeria should return to the parliamentary system of government?
Well, the parliamentary system is not a new system for Nigeria. Shortly after our independence in 1960, we practised the parliamentary system of government. Because of the military incursion into politics, that system collapsed. In 1979, we went to America to borrow the presidential system of government. That is what Nigerians are used to now, at least since 1979. Other systems were suggested during the military interregnum, especially during the regime of the former President Ibrahim Babangida. There was this suggestion that we should have a diarchy. A diarchy is a system of government made up of military and civilian authorities. That idea, too, fizzled out. Yes, the clamor for a shift from the presidential system to the parliamentary system is simply because the cost of governance under the presidential system in Nigeria is so high. That is the reason why people are saying let’s go back to the parliamentary system. The argument is that the cost of governance will be smaller. For instance, the ministers will come from parliament so, you don’t have a separate federal executive council, which will cut down on the cost of maintaining 46 ministers. Also, the issue of even the president himself or the prime minister being a member of parliament, where decisions will be taken, is considered.
Basically, the reason Nigerians are crying for a return to the parliamentary system is simply one: the cost of governance. For me, the cost of governance is not enough reason to shift from the presidential system. The presidential system of government, of course, has its own advantages. The president has executive powers, the governors have executive powers, and even the local government, despite interference from the state government, has some executive powers.
For me, the presidential system is better than the parliamentary system, if only there was a paradigm shift in the attitude of those in power. One disadvantage of the presidential system is that it is a winner-take-all system. In the parliamentary system, you also have the minority party in government, checking the excesses of the party in power. There are better checks and balances under the presidential system for me: the judiciary, the parliament, and, of course, the executive arm of government. But then, because of our peculiarity as a people, this system can only work if there is an attitudinal change in those who govern us. There must be transparency, and there must be zero tolerance for corruption. If we don’t remove some of these negative attitudes, no system of government will work in this country, even if it comes from heaven. And that is the truth. The problem is not the system; it’s the people who operate the system.
What is your take on the clamour for local government autonomy?
Yes, that resistance should be known because of the parasitic relationship between the local government council and the state government. Section 7 of the constitution which guarantees the existence of local government administration in Nigeria needs to be strengthened. Either you remove it from the state government or reaffirm its autonomy because the same section states that the Federal Government will make revenue allocations to run these local government council areas. But you find that you and I have given them this power. Another section states that there is a joint account between the state and the local government. I think to guarantee the autonomy of local governments, the constitution needs to be amended to ensure that on no account should the state government interfere, even though they have been given the power to create local governments. Those local governments must go through a legislative exercise up to the national assembly before they can gain the status of a local government. Remember the case of Lagos State and the Federal Government during [Olusegun] Obasanjo’s presidency? The state government created local government development areas in Lagos, and the allocation for those local governments was not released to the state government because, according to Obasanjo, it was unconstitutional to create those fourth-tier government entities like local government development areas.
Recently, another state created local government councils, and the courts found that no state government has the power to create local governments and begin to allocate public funds unless it goes through the legislative exercise from the state to the national assembly and, of course, amending the constitution. The local government is mentioned in the constitution, so if you remove one dot there, you have to go through the normal process of amendments. The reason why people are saying that state governments are against the autonomy of local governments is that illegal activities will be exposed. The local governments are the closest to the people, where grassroots politics take place. What we have seen over time is that the state governments, because the constitution says they are to make laws to govern the administration of local governments, keep tampering with the tenure of the local government councils. If they come in and they are not sure that the people in office are going to support them during the next election, they will dissolve them and put up caretaker committees to wield executive powers as though they were elected or democratically elected.
The governors know that the day the local governments get their autonomy is the beginning of panic in the governance of states. This executive lawlessness and recklessness in spending public funds will reduce to the minimum. That is why they are kicking against it.
Another issue is the State Independent Electoral Commissions (SIECs), which have been the subject of abuse and controversy over the years. The general belief is that no SIEC has been able to conduct credible elections since the inception of this dispensation, therefore asking for the transfer of the operations to the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC).
Well, there is always a reason Nigerians give for wanting a change in the status quo because of the abuse of power by those in power. That is why there is always a clamour for a paradigm shift. Yes, we have seen the state independent electoral commission carry out elections in various states, and we have seen how partisan they have been. But this partisanship does not stop with the state independent electoral commission, even INEC is also partisan. If you look at the qualification for becoming a commissioner under INEC, it states you must have the qualification to contest any election, and most of those people who are appointed into those positions are card-carrying members of political parties. As card-carrying members of political parties, they will do anything, whether legal or illegal, to ensure that their party gains an advantage over others. Because of their lack of independence, people are clamouring for a change. But it is the same thing with the last election; we saw what happened. The INEC chairman went to Chatham House and made some pronouncements that they would transmit results electronically, but when the day came, what did we see? We saw partisanship at play, and that is why some people are still licking their wounds.
The important thing, like I said, is attitude. If we change our attitudes and then strengthen our security apparatus, and the anti-corruption agencies work the way they should, and the judiciary ensures that those who have soiled their hands will have their day in court with certainty of prosecution, conviction, and sentencing, most of these impurities we have seen over time will be reduced to the minimum. So it’s not just enough to say we want the functions of state electoral commissions to be transferred to the national commission. It is the same thing, as far as I’m concerned.
The approval of a new presidential jet has been a subject of public discourse in recent years. There are those questioning the rationale behind the approval on the premise that Nigeria is not buoyant enough for such a thing at the moment. What is your opinion and this?
Bola Tinubu is the president of the largest and most populated country in Africa. Our president needs to interface with his contemporaries in other nations. If the current presidential jets truly have mechanical problems, I don’t think buying a new jet is extravagant. The security of our number one citizen must be guaranteed, especially his safety while in the air.
After all, I believe the other presidential jets will be sold, and any additional funds required to purchase a new one should be spent. Some expenses are necessary, regardless of economic hardship. That is my view. I don’t see the purchase as an unnecessary expense. The president’s safety and the dignity of our nation are very important. It would be embarrassing for our president to travel by commercial flight, given the uncertain maintenance of those aircraft. The security of the president’s life is crucial, and we cannot discount it. I agree that the way the economy is being managed needs to be reviewed.
The president has been pleading with Nigerians to endure the current economic hardship, or rather, sacrifice, but the presidency and the legislature are not embracing this based on their style of living. Don’t you think the executive branch should live by example?
Well, to answer that question, I’m not a member of the executive. So, I cannot answer that question specifically. But once there is a call for sacrifice, I think it should run across the board. It should not only be the masses that should tighten their belts but even the executives. The way we run our government in this country, there is so much waste, and that is the truth. You don’t need this number of ministers, and you don’t need this number of vehicles attached to ministers. Look at even the shortage we have in the police force. When you see a politically exposed person who is not even in government, a policeman is attached to him and being paid from public funds.
So, I think the call for tightening of belts should cut across the board. I will expect the president to say that, okay, in view of the situation, the Federal Executive Council’s salary will be reduced by 50 percent, and the number of aides will be reduced. And then, of course, the other privileges will be reduced too. The government must also look at the issue of the minimum wage. The labour unions have presented concrete facts before the government. You say you are paying us this amount of money. Okay, let us do the breakdown: what is the cost of transportation? What is the cost of medical care? And what is the cost of food prices in the market? If you say you are giving us this amount, do you think even this payment will take us back home? So, I think the government should consider all these and factor them into their arrangements. The workers too should know, but the other thing is that if they do not shift ground, there could be a mass downsizing of the workforce. And so they should try to strike a balance. Rome was not built in a day; the journey to El Dorado is ongoing. We will get there one day, but the government must do something concrete in terms of this issue of the minimum wage. For me, I’m in the private sector. I don’t even know what the salary structure is like in the public service. But I assure you that from the reports from the labour leaders, I think they have a good case. But a caring government should not just close its eyes; it must do something. They may not give 100 percent, but meet them at least halfway.
The call for state police has continued despite opposition from some quarters. Don’t you think Nigeria needs to expedite action on this to arrest the spate of insecurity in the country?
Well, I don’t know who the antagonists to the creation of state police are, whether they are part of the executive or part of the legislature, but the thing is that we have gotten to a stage in our political history where the Federal Government is overwhelmed, especially the police. If you look at other countries, the ratio of a police officer to a number of citizens is quite impressive. In some countries, one policeman will police maybe about 40 or 50 people. We have a population of over 200 million, and we have seen over time that even the recruitment into the police force has not helped. There are some governments that have not bothered; they don’t see it as a priority. We have less than 500,000 policemen in the country, and they are supposed to police over 220 million people. If you do the arithmetic, you will know that one policeman is expected to police more than maybe 100,000 people, and that is not good for us as a nation.
We have also seen the state government intervening in the provision of vehicles and other security equipment to the Nigerian police force. If the states had their own police, those monies would be channeled towards funding their local police. We’ve had it since the 1960s; we had native authority police, so why can’t we go back to that practice? Considering that the state police workforce will come from within the state, they know their terrain very well. They know where bandits are hiding; they know where armed robbers or black spots are. You can’t pick a policeman from Rivers State to come and police a rural area in Zamfara. He doesn’t even know the terrain in the first place, so how can he be effective? And besides, the government has always paid lip service; they keep saying that security is everybody’s business. Yes, it is everybody’s business, but the government needs to change the way it does its policing. The remuneration of the police officers is poor. Many of them lose their lives in the line of duty, and their families are left to wallow in abject poverty. So we need a change in the way the police are being run.
I am an advocate for the creation of state police. I know some state governors have also endorsed that. And so maybe the conversation will keep going on until we get to a state where we all agree that indeed we need state police. Why are people afraid of state police? Politicians, again, are not bothered about the next generation; they are more concerned about the next election. We’ve seen how they have misused the police during elections. And so they are scared that if the police at the state level are under the command of the state governor, they don’t have a chance of winning any election because the governor will give orders to the state police to do as he pleases. Again, if we have governors who are patriotic and concerned about the development of the people, they will not misuse the police under their command.
Do you think the report of the 2014 National Conference is still relevant to present-day reality, especially with the myriad of problems besetting the country on different fronts?
The decisions that were made at the 2014 conference are the roadmap for Nigeria’s development. Besides those recommendations, who wants to maintain the status quo where the majority of Nigerians will continue to be oppressed by a few people who have unlimited access to power? And now, as they are exiting the corridors of power, their children are taking over. Any progressive-minded person in Nigeria must have a look at that 2014 confab report.
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